Comments for Purgeport II

Comment on Good vs. Evil (ADLT 623 – Reflection #5) by eahoward

eahoward — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:12:52 +0000

Hi Johnathan, Thanks for the feedback. I agree, there are certainly examples of compassion, love truth etc, as far back as we can look. I think the point I was trying to highlight is how Schein is defining good and evil as a basis of organizational culture, and how we as individual are either good or evil inherently. Thus, I read this as if Schein is talking about greed, competition and a ’survival of the fittest’ perspective as defining evil and he questions if we as people are inherently this kind of ‘evil’ or good. I point back not just to ‘cavemen’ but the multitude of examples that include conflicts and wars that are were born from a need to conquest, be the best, have the most, rule all, etc etc. I believe our most basic instinct to be survival and that most of our actions are based on this underlying drive.
I’m not suggesting that we were all ‘evil’ in the sense that most of us would define evil today. However, in the context of corporate greed and aggression, I think we are inherently evil and have learned and evolved to be ‘good’ or better. Again, there are many examples of highly compassionate and non-competitive humans going back as far as we can date, just as today there are many examples of extreme evil in the context that Schein alludes to, such as ENRON.
Agreed, this would be an interesting topic to debate, but I do we are talking about the same ‘evil’.

Comment on Good vs. Evil (ADLT 623 – Reflection #5) by Jonathan

Jonathan — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:49:23 +0000

When you say that our ancestors are evil, I don’t quite get the connection. Sure, if we look back in history you can see actions or behavior which one could call negative, violent, or selfish. Can these be called evil? We could probably have quite a debate about that. I heard from what I will call a wise person that evil is that which takes us away from our highest potential. To me, that means one who lives or strives to live with integrity, compassion, understanding, truth, love… Yes, perhaps those are ideals, but I think there are examples of humans who have demonstrated those. History also shows another side of the human being too.

I think we have a sense of what is good somewhere inside, if we pay attention to it. I know that when I do some things that I later regret, I usually reflect on it and realize that something was off. If I dig deep enough, I can sometimes find it is based on some gap between what I value and my tacit beliefs or assumptions. Those are not so easy to uproot. However, as I become aware of them, I find that they can change with time… sometimes slowly.

I think that as science goes deeper into the exploration of consciousness, perhaps we’ll gain some deeper insight into how we form those underlying assumptions and learn how we can change more easily.

About the power-distance idea and skilled/semi-skilled and professional/managerial workers. I thought that Schein said that in some countries there is a low power-distance ratio and other countries a higher one. In the high-power-distance countries which he lists some as being Philippines, Mexico, and Venezuela, he said that there is more perceived inequality between subordinates and superiors vs. the low-power-distance countries such as Denmark, Israel, and Austria (p. 181-182). I guess this was based on some relative criteria that Hoefstede, a researcher, defined.

Comment on Good vs. Evil (ADLT 623 – Reflection #5) by yovhane

yovhane — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:22:31 +0000

I feel as if the divide or the understanding of a divide varies based on whose perspective you use. For the managers who tout an open-door policy, the divide probably seems less pronounced because they have made the effort to clear a path for access. For the labor force, the divide is still pronounced. I believe that most managers will acknowledge a power divide and the efforts made to maintain the status quo. Even from an evidentiary standpoint, the separate office and the salaried role allows for justification of the divide. And then there’s the actual title. I have seen it when there is a difference of one word in a title (like lead teacher vs. teacher) and the perceived divide was larger from the lead’s perspective. When is the divide justified though? In my opinion, the divide is more of a reality when it is from the perspective of the labor/skilled workers looking up.
I like your allusion to our national conscience. I agree with you, but I think it is a byproduct of capitalism and free market values. The alternative, socialism, doesn’t typically work because there is still a huge divide but its usually between a very few and the masses. This goes back to Theory X and Theory Y but on a bigger level. Can the mission of the organization/society coexist or be one in the same with the individual?

Comment on Culture and Space / Ownership (ADLT 623 – Reflection #4) by Jonathan

Jonathan — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:20:33 +0000

Thinking about the underlying assumptions of social culture is fascinating for me too. If we look at the predominate culture in the U.S., I think a major underlying assumption derives from the sense of inalienable rights of the individual that is laid out by the Declaration of Independence. I’m not sure that there is any right or wrong, but just different perspectives. However, it is also fascinating to me to gain a deeper insight into what forms culture, values, norms, and often resulting behavior and beliefs of the culture I was born in as well as other cultures. Having an insight into this could help me know how to better handle situations where there are underlying differences in culture.

Culture of a society or an organization seems so subtle, there are many layers indeed. And to arrive at underlying assumptions must take some work. Time and space from a cultural perspective are fascinating. I’ve shared a friend’s perspective on the idea of Polynesian time and European time. I think I tend towards Polynesian time, but also see the value of Euro time… Space is then another matter…

I do like my own space, but growing up in a house with 6 siblings has also influenced my sense of personal space. I remember sharing a bedroom with 2 of my brothers until I was probably 10 years old. So, the prevailing national/local culture surely has had it’s influence on me. However, that is somehow mixed with the culture/setting of my immediate family…

Comment on Culture and Space / Ownership (ADLT 623 – Reflection #4) by yovhane

yovhane — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:57:00 +0000

It would be exhausting to apologize or excuse yourself everytime you bumped into someone in Japan. My awareness is heightened, however, as soon as someone comes within six inches of me or my things in a public setting. It’s just the culture I guess. I visited New York City for my last birthday. I had also spent my previous birthday there. By the second trip, I stopped saying excuse me and walking behind people. Instead, I was pushing my way through crowds and making room where there was none before. “When in Rome…”
I think this is the same for a newcomer to an organization. If the masses idolize the authority figure, then the newcomer wouldn’t dare try to bond with colleagues over how deficient the leadership was. In the opposite case, if it is common to badmouth your boss behind her back, then that can be a bonding thing also for a newcomer. I have always been very wary of this alternative, however. It’s been part of the previous cultures I’ve been associated with to maintain healthy competition and to be the holder of information so as not to be put in a vulnerable position. I don’t trust my colleagues enough to join in on negative diatribe, not typically anyway.
I thought it was amusing that Ciba-Geigy prohibited faux inebriation. With the holidays coming up, there’s always a do/don’t list for holiday parties which are usually a break from the rigors of corporate culture if not just for a night. However, each don’t list has, “Don’t overstep boundaries” in some way, shape, or form. The great equalizer that is alcohol can really break down those barriers and allow different aspects of your character to shine through, good and bad. I’m excited to interview newcomers to my organization and flesh out their judgments on the assumptions with which we operate. I could keep going, but I won’t so great post!

Comment on Hubble Madness (ADLT623 – Reflection #3) by yovhane

yovhane — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 06:01:15 +0000

Even though we serve two different roles in our respective organizations, the two struggle with the same bureaucracy in order to “people please” tax payers, policy makers, and other stakeholders. I recently read an article comparing the state of adult basic education to the feudalism era. Maybe unlike you (I’m not sure), we’re underpaid, underemployed, yet still expected to grow a product (in the case of adult education, it would be a capable, functional, “improved” citizen; in the case of feudalism, it’s beans or corn in the landlord’s field). Quigley (2001) draws comparisons between having to present well-packaged, slightly misrepresented data in order to please a feudalistic landlord and presenting or measuring more favorable data for financiers, the state or federal government.

As an adult ESL teacher, I am vaguely familiar with the I9 form. My students aspire to take the GED test and gain a marketable skill through post secondary education. Like the Hubble mirror, I feel as if my role fits into a portion of their educational and life journey with the end being their academic attainment. I only wish that I could oversee and follow the entire process. Although our product is a human being’s language acquisition, the inherent bureaucracy potentially inhibits programmatic effectiveness. The mandate to move students through the program and show evidenced-based progress puts pressure on the organization to survive rather than thrive.

Reference:
Quigley, B.A. (2001). Living in the Feudalism of Adult Basic and Literacy Education: Can We Negotiate a Literacy Democracy? New Directions for Adult and Continuing Education, 91, 55-62. Retrieved from Academic Search Complete database.

Comment on The Dream Company (ADLT623 – Reflection #2) by Terry Carter

Terry Carter — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:12:26 +0000

Hi, Ed,
You’re in the right room. I think you have probably hit on something important when you suspect that the culture has something to do with the short-term status of your part-time employees. If you write your cultural analysis paper on this organization, you’ll be able to dig deeper into these ideas, test them with some of your colleagues, and see if the idea of not valuing part-timers is one of the many underlying assumptions that tacitly reside within the culture.

The other aspect of your post that I want to comment on is your question about whether or not one individual, at mid-management level, can influence organizational culture. You will probably have more success at influencing your immediate sphere of this culture, the sub-culture of your unit, especially if you have some authority and autonomy for this unit. As you will learn, culture is complex, multi-layered, and deeply ingrained. What is ironic is that cultural practices are adopted initially because they WERE successful at some time in the past to solve organizational problems, but often they become dysfunctional over time. You are really going to enjoy the Schein text:-)

Comment on The Dream Company (ADLT623 – Reflection #2) by Jonathan

Jonathan — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:13:55 +0000

Hi Ed,

I’ve also found it can be frustrating being in an organization where there is little openness to change or and somewhat of rigid status quo mentality. Being in a large organization that where such policies or procedures are in place that seem to discourage learning and growth must be challenging. However, it seems like within the context you have made efforts to encourage openness and trust.

Trust also seems to me to be a very significant ingredient in creating a vibrant organizational culture, which would include employee/member satisfaction. I also see that respect goes hand and hand in building trust – respect for the potential of each individual, respect for the intention when there are errors or mistakes, respect for myself when I come up short…

I’m also trying to get a wrap around how I might use/integrate some of the ideas/principles of org learning into an organization for which I do volunteer work. I think the exploration and reflection we are doing in this class will help give me some ideas for action plans…

Comment on The Dream Company (ADLT623 – Reflection #2) by yovhane

yovhane — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:11:28 +0000

I think we’re finding similar aspects of “organizational learning” to be contrary to what our society and culture teach. I also questioned whether or not change can come from the middle. Based on my experience and based on Dixon’s assertions, the answer is a resounding NO. If I’ve taken nothing else away on learning organizations, it is that there must be widespread, purposeful measures in place to facilitate a learning environment. I don’t think a successful shift or change in ideology is accidental nor partial.

I agree that it is easier for larger organizations to develop a learning atmosphere if they recognize that each subunit as unique and capable. This approach worked for the WHO in managing a global enterprise and seeing global results. I think if we analyzed the leadership at smaller organizations that don’t promote collective growth or deviated thinking, we would find very territorial personalities using their position as a means to an end rather than the position being an end. I’m not trying to draw a parallel between loving your job so much you don’t want to leave or someone else to take it, but those who are less open to relinquishing control of the order and control of subordinates show little faith in process-oriented methods. It’s interesting that you pointed out there are less financial incentives with which to reward people. I wonder if increased understanding, influence, and personal development in a learning organization could serve as a substitute for the traditional reward system in the “business as usual” organization.

Comment on “Hallways” (ADLT 623 Reflection #1) by Jonathan

Jonathan — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 02:30:19 +0000

Ed, I just spent quite a while writing a comment over a period of time and when I went to submit, it vanished into the ether! Oh, my! Where did that go?

I’ll start over… (first I’ll try to submit this!) Maybe it’s in your que for approval since it doesn’t show up yet. I think and hope that’s where it is!